In Indochina gab es im letzten Jahrhundert einige schlimme Kriege:
Der 1. Indochinakrieg als französischer Kolonialkrieg in Vietnam, Laos und Kambodscha
Der 2. Indochina Krieg als amerikanischer Krieg gegen den Kommunismus in Vietnam und später in Laos und Kambodscha
mit unglaublichem Materialaufwand.
auf beiden Seiten, sponsored by USA bzw. USSR / China
Zuletzt die roten Khmer im kambodschanischen Bürgerkrieg
mit ihrem Minderheiten Genozid und Attacken auf Vietnam
Das Ende vom Lied ist immer gleich:
Die Vietnamesen vertreiben alle Aggressoren.
Das ist in Vietnam Tradition, unter anderem mit Japan, dem Erzfeind China und sogar der allmächtigen mongolischen Horde!
Ich bin Deutscher. Deutschland ist das Land in dem die Holocaustleugnung ein Straftatbestand ist. Einige wenige Menschen finden, dass alle Deutschen für die Nazi Verbrechen verantwortlich sind. Ich war damals noch nicht am Leben und meine Eltern auch nicht, aber das spielt keine Rolle.
Ich verstehe diese Sicht besser nach meiner Reaktion zu den Kriegsfolgen in Vietnam:
- Opfer des mit Dioxin kontaminierten Herbizids “Agent Orange”
- Beschreibungen von Kriegsverbrechen, wie das Massaker von My Lai
- Massivste Bombardierungen, sogar von historischen Denkmälern (My Son, Hue)
Mein erster Impuls ist es alle US Amerikaner zu verteufeln. Aber die allermeisten heute lebenden US Amerikaner waren damals noch nicht am Leben oder sogar gegen den Vietnamkrieg…
Ho-Chi-Minh-Stadt, Vietnam 
I wasn’t alive and heck my family weren’t even living in the country or citizens then (tho my dad chose to live in Canada at the time to avoid the draft). American identity is a much more fluid thing than many Europeans realize in my experience.
Well that and Germans are the most reserved out of any country I’ve come across in terms of national pride. Lots of things to be proud about, but everyone learns as a kid that you shouldn’t be proud to be German yes?
American identity is fluid? Didn’t Americans invent the “We are the best country in the world” thing? (-;
Germans can be pretty proud about winning in soccer. But besides sports, we are missing the whole concept of patriotism. And even if you are proud about being a German, it’s politically incorrect to show.
In Mongolia people are still very very proud about Ghenghis Khan, 900 years ago. When they learned about me being German, they assumed I would be very very proud about Hitler. Boy, they were in for a surprise…
If I would get to choose where to be born right now, the German speaking countries would be my favourite pick. That’s as patriotic as I will get (-;
Ha well I was more referring to the fact that my parents could move to the USA just a few decades ago and now consider themselves Americans and their kids are Americans first. In most places in Europe I can live there from now until the day I die but I will always be “an American,” or even crazier “a Hungarian” cause that’s where my ancestors are from. (I’m thinking for example in Germany you have a lot of ppl who were born there but have Turkish parents, but they’re not considered “really” German. An American wouldn’t understand that.)
But hey, Hungarians are still proud of Attila the Hun even though that was 1500 years ago and there’s no historical backing to believe that the Huns are related to the Magyars (despite the implication in English). But yeah national identity and patriotism is a funny thing, most people don’t think of the bad stuff when it comes to that do they? Germans are the exception rather than the rule for sure in that.
Though if you’re ok with just “German-speaking” I’m now going to start making jokes about the Swiss on a regular basis. I’m pretty sure the Germans just resent them because they’re better at being German than the Germans. ;)
Someone compared Obama’s election as the 1st black U.S. president with Germany. He made the point, that that’s like a German with Turkish roots being elected to Bundeskanzler.
That’s just a ridiculous idea. I can’t see how! Not if hell freezes over! I guess we Germans are not as open-minded as we could be. But just 2 decades ago, a woman as Bundeskanzler would have been thought impossible…
Well, the U.S. is (or was?) a country of immigrants.
And Germany is (and will be?) a country afraid of patriotism. Even our national anthem: Only the 3rd stanza may be used today. The 1st and 2nd are considered nationalistic. Even our flag:
spiegel.de: Germany’s Patriotism Problem
The Swiss don’t even know how to speak German. Who in their right mind calls a motorbike “töff”? That’s babytalk! Them outGermaning the Germans? Not if hell freezes over! (-;
Haha yeah, whenever I meet a supercilious German who I want to annoy I just point out that Obama wouldn’t have been elected in Germany. Blows their minds because they want to believe they’re more liberal and open-minded then the US. ;)
I confess I didn’t know enough German to know why toff would be a funny thing for the Swiss to say until I asked a colleague. Ok, that is really funny. :D
I just had to lookup supercilious. Why do you use such an uncommon word, when the sentence retains the same meaning without it?
Well Töff is basically like calling every car a “tuktuk”. Or every dog a “wuff”, like a baby. Or every helicopter a “chopper”. Wait, the last one doesn’t make any sense!
Go on and bug your supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Germans. We deserve it. Please don’t tell them where you heard it, though (-;
[...] sich auf 2km² wunderschöne Gärten, Paläste, Plätze, Seen und Pagoden. Alles wurde nach den Indochina Kriegen restauriert. Die Franzosen haben die Zitadelle zerstört und die Amerikaner sie in Grund und Boden [...]
Hey I think supercilious is a perfectly fine and normal word- it was one of my derivatives in 7th grade Latin class. Plus heaven help you if you have to learn something (says the scientist). ;-)
I put in “supercilious Germans” to refer to the types you meet (inevitably Europeans, but most commonly Germans in my experience) who give me grief for being an American. Which I never understood because by that logic I’m pretty sure Germans wouldn’t want to be held collectively responsible for all the things they’ve done, but whatever as I said by that point I like to antagonize the situation.
And hey I think “chopper” makes sense, it’s akin to calling an airplane a “plane”- ie an abbreviation, whereas every other example you’ve listed was just a baby-talk version of something else.
Wait, is chopper just short for helicopter? Isn’t a chopper called chopper because of the *chop* *chop* *chop* sound?
In my hostel in Hanoi, there are 2 Americans acting more anti-American than I knew was possible. I’m learning a lot from them (-;
1) Probably a mix of both. But normal people say chopper is my point, not just weirdoes like the Swiss.
2) I’m rather curious to hear what you’re learning ;-)
1) “normal people” – The Swiss think, they are normal, too (-;
2) All I’m learning, seems to come from the Zeitgeist movies.
1) Well to clarify I never said *I* was normal, just I’m aware normal people say such things. ;-)
2) I’m rather impressed that we’ve gotten from the concept of German national pride to Zeitgeist movies. Though I probably wouldn’t have gotten along with those Americans! (Because as an astronomer they probably would’ve asked me about astrology, and that just never ends well.)
I didn’t get along with them. People who act like being really smart and then go play Spider Solitaire all day, together on one laptop, is too much Akrasia for me…
I’m more impressed, that we went the wrong way. We should have started with Zeitgeist and according to Godwin’s law, every discussion, going long enough ends with Hitler and the Nazis (-:
Hey, you are an astronomer! What’s my horoscope for tomorrow? Is it my lucky day? I’m Sagittarius (-;
Haha yeah I recall that part of the world is filled with lots of American “anti-materialists” or whatever the hippies bill themselves as, who always had bigger packs than me so I was never quite certain what that was about.
And I assure you I’ve hung out long enough on the Internet to know full well what Godwin’s Law is, but pointing out you were the one who brought it up! ;-)
I’ll just tell you what I tell anyone who starts to really annoy me then- how well I don’t believe in astrology except for this one time… my grandmother was a Cancer, you see, and her death was really horrible… she was eaten by a giant crab.
And I wonder why the hippies and me never got along!
Wow, you’re easily annoyed. Isn’t fortune telling your job? What else are astronomers good for! (-;
So you want to tell me, that when your grandmother was born, Saturn and Uranus were dancing to Beethovens “Für Elise”? And the giant crab dropped on a moonless night from Venus? Did you need the exact birthdate and a talisman to figure that out?
I don’t get most hippies either. Most of the times, it feels like they are only playing at being relaxed. I think some of them are really full of themselves. By coincidence, I’m just reading Dharma Bums and I hate the whole attitude. As if you can be proud of something like that…
I think the trick is whatever you are in life, if you’re sincere about it you don’t feel a need to brag. People will work it out on their own and then be a lot more impressed with you that way.
Turns out most hippies don’t fall into this category. I mean really, if you’re a free spirit I can figure that out pretty easily without you bragging about it (and if you really WERE then you wouldn’t have the need to tell me, right?).
Maybe free spirits are not meta free (-;
I also like downplaying or just shutting up. Imho, bragging forces you to be someone, you probably aren’t.